For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued...


Posted by Julias Jaded Jester ® , Jul 25,2001,03:08   MetroBlab

Julie I saw your response, and although I am certain you've got a credible take on it, when you say that

"those men are adept at controlling their natural urge to roam. I think that most faithful married men would agree that they still like to look...."

what you are doing is simplistically reducing a gender to be the victims of their own lust, and I don't buy it for a second. You're also taking the point away from ACTIONS, and back toward thoughts.

Condit was not just 'looking'...

Certainly many married guys still look, but the very concept of making those vows represents a serious pledge before fellow Man. All of our best friends come to see us get married. Everyone knows what questions will be asked, and most have them practically memorized just from life experience.

'Do you promise to love and cherish, in sickness and health, for richer or poorer, forsaking all others, until death do you part?'

The vows are given for a reason; the questions are asked for a reason.

Merely looking at beauty does not an adulterer make, Julie.

Condit could have walked down any beach in America and looked at pretty girls in swim suits-- he CHOSE to cheat on his wife and he did it physically.

Also, I really don't think that 'men of Power automatically disregard moral convention and ethical restraints simply because thier EGOS demand gratification.'

Paglia wants nothing more than justify the most vile behaviours by mocking Bauer's moral perspective, and so she insults the man by claiming that he secretly wants to do the very behaviour that he points out is wrong. And by saying 'may the force be with you' it almost appears you are making the same claim of me...

several reasons why that dog don't hunt, Julie...

and the first one is that I know I am very much straight; but thanks for the psychoanalysis, counselor...

and the nextt one is that merely because I disagree with the all encompassing scope of sexuality that is thrust up and held to the light as an 'alternative' does NOT mean that I secretly crave to do such in my own mind, and I am certain Bauer felt the same way.

Oh no-- he saw and he didn't like; and Paglia threw some simplistic psychoanalytical hogwash (which dressed down a little was nothing more than an insult) at him...

Condit should IMMEDIATELY resign, Julie.

You also might be interested to know that many men, and I mean MANY of them, who are highly creative and intelligent, are not overtly sexual beings. Their sexual nature is not a huge part of their lives, and in fact that is often a COMMON corrolary factor in their character. I've know many guys who could easily be a genius in their own field, smart as a whip intelligent cats who could sit up all nite and explain to you how we can't get out of the star system in a space ship, even if we had the propulsion,

because the level of acceleration that we'd have to maintain would simply kill the heart, and if the ship was slowed enough to make a 2G environment possible then you'd run into lifespan problems.

I've known some guys who are creative geniuses as well. They write MUCH BETTER than the fluff that goes out in Sunday editions and ends up in the waste paper baskets beside the toilet. Or they PAINT. ACT. SING.

Whatever...

To merely classify all of faithfull married men as 'driven by a primordial sex drive which compells them in other directions when they are unable to sate it in the most natural manner' is a simplistic paradigm, because there really ARE men for whom sex is not a defining characteristic of their lives. For them it's over rated anyway.

If you've just put the finishing touches on the computer that launches Atlantis, ya might not have to run to a strip club to find nirvana.

And we guys do some cool things like that all the time.

The reason WHY Condit hasn't resigned yet is because we haven't put enough pressure on him as a society, but it's gaining strength. I would think that women everywhere would look to a guy like Condit and say that he represents the worst sort of man...a man who WAS led by his sexual nature, and one who had no character or integrity. The fact that we don't have a great deal of moral outrage at his conduct says a little about hwo far morality has fallen in this land.

As far as I am concerned, if his own wife couldn't trust him, then the voting public of California certainly shouldn't.



Followups



For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued...

Re:
For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued... -- Julias Jaded Jester
Posted by J. Lieber , Jul 25,2001,12:03   MetroBlab

Whoa, Nellie...I don't know how you infer that I was comparing you to Gary Bauer. I recalled a witty remark made by Camille Paglia, which I thought related to the general context of my post.

I do not make judgments about things like the sexual orientation or habits of anonymous posters on a message board. My God, I hope my grip on reality is firmer than that.

Based on the rest of your post, I can only conclude that you didn't get one wit of what I was talking about. In case anybody else read my post as thinly as you did, let me emphasize that I do not believe intelligence or creativity is mutually exclusive of sexuality, overt or otherwise. In fact, I believe that creativity is a kind of sexual outlet. Intelligence has nothing at all do with it. There are smart sexy beasts and dumb sexy beasts.

It is impossible to discuss the mysteries of human sexuality with people who cannot stow their moral outrage long enough for an objective exchange of ideas. Your posts betray--and I'm not joking here--an hysterical obsessiveness with your irrational notions of morality, which you see as finite. Like the ignorant masses whose small ideas and mean, idle minds you champion, you not only refuse to consider a reasonable argument when it is put to you, you are hostile and overtly defensive. You have commandeered this message board as if it were your own creation, and made reasoned and dignified dialogue a hostage to your tyrannical, blowhard rants.

I wish you would just leave. I also wish George Bush would start drinking again. But we can't all have everything our own way, so go on keeping us all enthralled with your malignant rhetoric, and I'll do my best to keep up.


well look at it this way, Julie...

Re:
For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued... -- J. Lieber
Posted by Julias Jaded Jester ® , Jul 26,2001,00:01   MetroBlab

Julie you may be right ...that I didn't get what you were attempting to explain...it's not that I have a 'hysterical obsessiveness with irrational notions of morality' at all:

I think that it's not too much to ask that a man be faithfull to his wife, or else get a divorce.

There was an OPTION for Gary Condit-- it was just one he didn't want to take... he COULD HAVE divorced his wife of 30 years, and instead...he decided to throw his vows in her face and in essence say--

"I know I promised wedding vows but I can't keep them, and not only that but I've been LYING to you all these years."

Tell your girlfriends this one from JJJ, Julie: A man can be a lyar without being an adulturer, but if he IS an adulterer, well darling he's ALSO a lyar. Adultuerers are ALWAYS lyars as well as adulterers.

He's a lyar as well because your wife ASKS you sooner or later to EXPLAIN a time differential that shouldn't or wouldn't be there in a normal marriage.

"Where WERE YOU last night, honey?" she will ask.

"WHY do you have to work late tonight?"

"Do you have to work late AGAIN?"

And I HAVE NOT made 'reasonable dialog a hostage to blowhard rants'...if anything, I've been assailed here from day one. I have actually done my very best around here to CLUE SOME PEOPLE IN on how to act on a message board, but between the flamers, impersonators, rogue posters and multiple handle users...that has proven impossible right from the start. If we had source dial ups here like they have at MSNBC it would really cut down on the multiple handle users, but the ideal answer is for people to be able to stand behind what they say in every post. Lots of them can't do that, and that is WHY they hide behind several.

And you really don't want me to leave, do ya? Heck I'm a ratings winner, girl! I leave and this thing comes to a boredom laced screeching halt.... :)

Awe come on Julie-- I'm actually SURPRISED that you don't see in Condit the exact same thing that I do-- Julie, he's a symbol and sum of all that is WRONG in what it is to be a man.

He's a LYAR and a CHEATER.

Would you want to see your sister married to him?

Ever seen one of your friends ball her eyes out on a pillow because she just found out that her boyfriend has been cheating on her?

Condit is 53; Chandra was 24. He's more than twice her age, and easily old enough to be her father. I think one of his kids IS older than her.

He has a ton of power and he USED that power. He is married, and she was not married...so WHO really needed to be the responsible one here?

HE DID.

A man like Condit should actually make you angry, Julie-- we've enough lying, cheating, manipulative power mad men in the world that they are not in need of defense;

I was hoping you'd see it my way...

and if it means anything...of all who post here, I never doubted that you can...

keep up...

with anybody.




well look at it this way, Julie...

Re:
well look at it this way, Julie... -- Julias Jaded Jester
Posted by It Hurts , Jul 26,2001,02:16   MetroBlab

For the love of Jesus Tapdancing Christ, get laid and get the fuck off the computer.


well look at it this way, Julie...

Re:
well look at it this way, Julie... -- It Hurts
Posted by Myra ® , Jul 26,2001,09:00   MetroBlab

Amen and hallelujah to that!

For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued...

Re:
For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued... -- Julias Jaded Jester
Posted by Hunter Rose ® , Jul 25,2001,10:21   MetroBlab

You also might be interested to know that many men, and I mean MANY of them, who are highly creative and intelligent, are not
overtly sexual beings.

That's true, but you might be interested to know that many of us consider those kinds of men to be the most boring of their respective fields.


For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued...

Re:
For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued... -- Hunter Rose
Posted by Zippy , Jul 25,2001,14:40   MetroBlab

Of course you do. It's women, now, who have the madonna/whore complex that men used to have.

One day, perhaps, women will accept men as whole human beings, not objects for their sexual and financial fantasies.


You are neither!

Re:
For J.L.--- the Condit Chronicles Continued... -- Julias Jaded Jester
Posted by Uncle Sam , Jul 25,2001,10:05   MetroBlab

JJJ, you are neither Condit's wife OR a constiuent of Condit's district! So it doesn't matter a damn bit what you think. You and TrentLott boy like to make these assumptions for others, and it is all based on "The word according to Rush" anyway. So get get a life, and quit crowding this board with boring, idiotic, long running conservative diatribe. It's old, tired, and useless, much like your idol Jesse Helms. Go tell it all to your dog. It's always nonsensical, and none of it matters except to you. Now go stroke your Katherine Harris doll.

It's OK if Condit killed that wh�ore, she was just that, a jewi�sh who�re.

Re:
You are neither! -- Uncle Sam
Posted by G�ene Harrogate ® , Jul 27,2001,21:20   MetroBlab

No kidding. We don't need your stupid morals, JJJ. I hope someone is fuc�king her de�ad body as we speak.

~Gene Harrogate


Je�wish Who�res Sti�nk, anyway.

Re:
It's OK if Condit killed that wh�ore, she was just that, a jewi�sh who�re. -- G�ene Harrogate
Posted by Uncl�e Sam ® , Jul 27,2001,21:26   MetroBlab

You know it's true.

And they're all hairy on their arms. It's disgusting.

BTW, check out the concert calendar for next month! Lots coming up!