| Posted by annieO ® , Oct 01,2003,11:31 | MetroBlab |
Anyway, this just seemed like good fodder for this board.
"In other words, does this wave of allegations not suggest a correlation between religious belief and sex crime? In fact, is it not plausible to think that the more extreme religious belief becomes, the more likely deviant activity becomes? Think about it. Religion tends to frown upon the expression of normal sexual desires, thereby exacerbating them, building them up without providing socially acceptable avenues of relief. Religion tends to construct a climate of secrecy in which sexual infractions are swept under the rug, thereby providing de facto immunity for perpetrators. Religion tends toward fatalism in morality � "leave it for Jehovah" � thereby failing to correct the corruptions in its own midst. Are these not precisely the preconditions, even the warning signs, for sexual disturbance?"
Full article:
http://www.pervscan.com/archives/000091.php
| Posted by bluemountain ® , Oct 01,2003,13:08 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by Michael ® , Oct 01,2003,13:27 | MetroBlab |
Now there's a carefully thought out and articulate alternative explanation.
~m.
--modified at Wed, Oct 01, 2003, 13:28:04
| Posted by bluemountain ® , Oct 01,2003,13:41 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by SnM ® , Oct 01,2003,15:17 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by DnB ® , Oct 02,2003,13:38 | MetroBlab |
The epitome of love in these ancient societies was pedastry - a sexual relationship between an older man and a young boy; today it is a very serious felony. To the Greeks this was something positive and beautiful. All the Greek greats - Sophocles, Aeschylus, and Plato, for instance - had young boy lovers. And many waxed ecstatic about it, such as the Greek poet Propertius: "May my enemies fall in love with women and my friends with boys."
further:
http://abacus.bates.edu/~mimber/athlit02/lecture6.1.htm
Athenians typically used the language of eroticism to describe this relationship. The older partner was the erastes, the "lover" and perhaps sexually dominant partner. The young man was the eromenos, the "beloved" and perhaps sexually submissive partner. It was appropriate when the boys had grown old enough and learned what their lovers had to teach that these relationships lose their erotic focus, that the young men take wives and produce sons of their own, and when they were old enough, take the role of "lover," themselves. Men of either age group who didn't grow out the relationships were frowned upon. Men who did not marry and produce children were looked down upon. Men who when they had ceased to young continued to enjoy being sexually submissive, were despised. Middle aged men who had homosexual relationships with each other were despised. Conversely, men who enjoyed being sexually dominant with younger men, suffered no social sanctions, if they conducted these relationships properly. If the object of the dominent Athenian's affection was a slave or foreigner, Athenians didn't give a damn. If the object of affection was an Athenian boy who could grow up to be citizen and soldier of Athens, Athenians cared very much. Proper conduct of these relationships required that very young boys be free from any such eroticization, and that even with age-appropriate (just before the age when boys start to get their first facial hair) boys, a boy's father approves of the relationship. Young men, moreover, were supposed to behave modestly, and if they "led their lovers on," insisting on gifts, etc., they risked being accused of prostituting themselves (with consequences for their civic rights).
First, our evidence for homosexual relationships playing a critical role within Athenian culture is strongest for the aristocracy (which not coincidently, most strongly segregated the sexes). Second, while Athenians (or at least aristocratic Athenians) encouraged young men to welcome the attention of older men, these relationships were not necessarily sexually active. The most important function of these relationships was to educate young men into the demands of their identities as aristocratic members of a democratic community. More specifically, some have argued that these relationships taught young aristocrats to negotiate difficult issues of power.
| Posted by bluemountain ® , Oct 01,2003,17:24 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by SnM ® , Oct 01,2003,17:54 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by GSMOT(tm) ® , Oct 02,2003,10:21 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by SnM ® , Oct 02,2003,10:54 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by annieO ® , Oct 02,2003,11:16 | MetroBlab |
So, yes, I do believe that culture has much to do with our sense of morality. The sexual contact was not considered harmful to the children. For instance, the fact that the enitire society was open about the adult-child sexual contact, meant there was no stigma attached to the child and no emotional estrangement from the parents or friends. Also, the author noted that the contact didn't seem to be harmful physically.
I, having been raised in this society, find most of that society's normal behavior to be repulsive. But the fact that I still speak to and even hug the adult male members of my family would cause me to be put to death in their society.
It is all relative.
| Posted by GSMOT(tm) ® , Oct 02,2003,11:26 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by SnM ® , Oct 02,2003,12:37 | MetroBlab |
Anyway, what I want to know is, why hasn't Markie involved himself in this thread. It's really all about him, after all.
--modified at Thu, Oct 02, 2003, 12:39:19
| Posted by SnM ® , Oct 02,2003,10:53 | MetroBlab |
| Posted by Kevin Knack Jr. ® , Oct 01,2003,16:29 | MetroBlab |
Answering that question requires examining the amount of psychological harm that inflicts human beings at various stages of development following sexual intercourse with an adult. During early childhood, the amount of trauma seems to be quite severe, suggesting a just basis for criminalization by society. Since there is no universal point at which the risk of trauma disappears, the decision to criminalize sex with minors at a certain age has a pragmatic, rather than a morally absolute basis. Of course you already know this, so I will simply concur that your point is taken about the moral subjectivity of the term �perverse.�
An interesting page for reference.
| Posted by DB ® , Oct 01,2003,14:10 | MetroBlab |
The ones that get caught, anyway. The women that do this (and there are plenty) just don't leave behind the evidence and injury that men do.
| Posted by annieO ® , Oct 02,2003,10:57 | MetroBlab |
http://www.umkc.edu/sites/hsw/issues/pedophil.html
it classifies 5 types of pedophile and female pedophiles have a type all to themselves:
Fixated (or exclusive type) pedophilia: The fixated pedophiles consider themselves to be trapped in childhood. They usually have minimum relations with adult peers, and relate better with children. They are identified mainly as men and their primary interest is in boys, with whom they develop boy to boy relationships. They typically plan their activities to promote access to young boys through church, neighborhood, or sporting activities.
Regressed (or nonexclusive type) pedophilia: On the other hand, the regressed pedophile is not ordinarily attracted to children. Those with regressed pedophilia are typically heterosexual married males and most likely to sexually molest 8 or 9 year old female children. Some pedophiles complain of anxiety or tension related to employment or marital relationship as precursors to pedophilic impulses, as well as alcohol or drug usage. They view the child as an adult substitute, and relate to the child in an adult to adult manner. The first sexual encounter is usually sudden and unplanned.
Cross-sex pedophilia: Male pedophiles who sexually molest young girls are typically diagnosed with regressed pedophilia. They commonly befriend the young girl and gradually engage in sexually activities, enticing, rather than forcing, the child. The activities frequently include fondling the child, encouraging the child to fondle the male, and possibly oral stimulation, but rarely sexual intercourse.
Same-sex pedophilia: While most pedophiles who engage in or fantasize about same-sex children do not participate in heterosexual adult sexual relations, they also deny being homosexual. Instead, the pedophiles are more sexually aroused by male and female children than by either gender of adults. The average age of molestation among boys is between 10 and 12. Sexual activities typically involve fondling and adult masturbation and/ or oral stimulation of the boy, and anal sex with the adult male taking the active role.
Female pedophilia: Although the vast majority of pedophilia is among males, female pedophilia does exist. However, female pedophilia is not commonly reported, possibly because the female's affection shown toward a child is seen as maternal, as opposed to sexual in the males. Additionally, male children do not view sexual relations with adult women negatively, and therefore may not report the incident. However, it is reportedly fairly common for young males (12 years old or younger) to engage in sexual activities (usually sexual intercourse) with adult women, usually in their twenties, who are usually known by the boys and typically friends of parents, neighbors or baby-sitters.